FATHER FRANK’S RANTS
Rant Number 369 29 October 2009
Open Letter to Islamophobe Dutch MP Geert Wilders
Dear Mr Wilders,
They say you can only take a horse to the water, you can’t make it drink. But human beings are not horses. Unlike animals, they can be reasoned with. I offer these few remarks in the faint hope you are amenable to reason.
It is about your recent speech to the Alliance of Patriots in New York. In which you paint an apocalyptic picture of ‘the Islamization of Europe’. You describe some European cities with Muslim neighbourhoods in lurid terms. It is a world ‘where women walk around in figureless tents…Their husbands, or slave holders, if you prefer, walk three steps ahead’. Mr Wilders, I live bang near one of those areas in West London. I often visit Whitechapel and Edgware Road – parts of our colourful Londonistan – I have never seen a Muslim woman walking behind her husband. Rather, the mothers stroll about in a proud, dignified manner, alongside the men. Nothing in their behaviour suggests a subordinate role, let alone slavery. And there are tons of lively, even feisty Muslim girls wearing all sorts of gear. True, they may not, as a rule, behave like permissive, liberated females, baring the flesh, hugging and kissing partners in public, no. I would even guess most of them don’t sleep with boys before marriage. But since when are chastity, modesty and self-restraint so bad? The traditional, Christian mores of the Western civilisation which you claim to uphold used to prize such things, no?
’25 per cent of the population of Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now’. Lies, damned lies and statistics, someone said. But if you want native Europeans to stay numerically supreme, how about encouraging them to have more children? To urge them not to use contraceptives, the pills? To give up abortion? To bolster family values? Stop bashing Islam. Embrace the Christian religion in its conservative, sound traditions and all will be kosher.
‘Thousands of mosques across Europe. With larger congregations than churches’, you notice. Well, whose fault is that? Do perhaps Muslims stand at church doors, stopping the eager faithful from worshipping the Lord? Methinks you should rather address yourself to Christians. ‘Look at Muslims’ you should say. ‘Look at how many regularly pray. How keen they are on the observances of their religion. You should do the same.’ Exactly. The flourishing of mosques across Europe should serve as a stimulus to Christians. A window of opportunity. As an urgent reminder to get back to their vital, life-giving roots – the worship of the One True God. Why blame pious Muslims for the faults of lukewarm or nominal Christians, eh?
In Amsterdam ‘gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims’. Awful, if true. Funnily enough, I recall the words of Pym Fortuyn, the gay right-wing politician murdered by a fanatic. ‘I have nothing against Moroccans – I have slept with so many of them.’ From Andre Gide to William Burroughs, the Arab world has been one of artistic gays’ favourite fun destinations. Tangiers’ nickname was ‘Sodom on Sea’. Homophobia can’t be all that endemic amongst Arabs, I should imagine.
‘The history of the Holocaust can no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity.’ How bizarre. First, a godson of mine has been to Auschwitz, on a school trip. Part of a programme to learn about wartime horrors. School curricula in Britain do in fact include projects about WWII and persecutions of Jews and other people. London’s Imperial War Museum has a holocaust section, which I viewed just the other day. What’s more, TV channels force-feed viewers with a daily, obsessive dose of films and programmes about the war and Germany’s crimes. If anybody should complain about this state of affairs, it should be Germans. It fuels Germanophobia, the lurking, masochistic English vice. Do today’s Germans deserve such constant pilloring? After all, isn’t Germany amongst the strongest supporters of your beloved state of Israel?
The Prophet Muhammad. Had he been ‘a man of peace…like Ghandi and Mother Teresa wrapped in one, there would be no problem. But Mohammed was…’ I won’t quote the rest, as it would be distasteful. Muhammad certainly did not found a religion like the Quakers, no. And he is definitely different from figures like Buddha and Jesus. However, why you did not compare him to a prophet and lawgiver like Moses? Muhammad had the Jewish tribes of Banu Qurayza slaughtered, you write. Well, Exodus 32:25 has Moses ordering the Levites to slay those who had worshipped the Golden Calf, about 3000 men. ‘Today you have ordained yourselves for the service of the Lord’ Moses told the slayers. Hardly like Gandhi, would you agree?
You are silent about Moses, I suspect, because in your speech you wrapped yourself in the mantle of defender of Israel. Mr Wilders, this Anglican priest is opposed to the destruction of the state of Israel. Because I am a Christian, Jews are rather important to me. I support both a Jewish state and a Palestinian state. A modest-sized Jewish Vatican in the Holy Land is the realistic solution. Bernard Wasserstein’s thoughtful book, ‘Israel & Palestine’, points the way. Wasserstein shows how your fantasy of Israel as a heroic outpost of the West against the incoming Jihad is nonsense. Indeed, Israeli society today needs immigrants as much as Europe does. And they won’t be Jewish immigrants. Despite your astonishing garbage about rising anti-Semitism in France (headed by a Jewish President!), Jews worldwide are happy where they are – they not migrating to Israel – or should I say ‘Isra-hell’, as my Israeli friend Ronen once wrote?
Ok, you don’t like Muslims. Yet they are not going to go away. Your case is analogous to that of the man whose garden was infested by ladybirds. They were everywhere. He didn’t like them. He tried several methods to get rid of them. Sprays, insecticides, this and that. Nothing worked. The ladybirds kept being around. Indeed, they multiplied. The guy was getting obsessed with them, growing paranoid, bitter, haunted. Eventually, he sent an e-mail to a wise old friend, an experienced gardener: ‘What should I do about the damned ladybirds?’
The reply came: ‘I suggest you learn to love them’.
Revd Frank Julian Gelli
Comments on: "Open Letter to Islamophobe Dutch MP Geert Wilders" (6)
Hello Father Frank Gelli:
I have not read this blog for quite some time,in fact just today in I think more than a month.I have noticed you have strong opinions.In general you have good points but there are questions.
In my experience with Muslims who are in the West I have several times asked them directly if they were 100% for the right of NON-MUSLIMS to critique Mohammed and the Koran AND not be punished.NEVER has one of them said yes,they were compeltely silent.
GEERT WILDERS is right in that such an attitude is bad for freedom.My question is:have YOU asked the Muslims you know about that?If not then do so to see if they agree.I think you are a sincere man.
So if I were to say:”If a Muslim calls St.PAUL a deceiver and a liar,and the creator of Christianity then I support his being thrown into jail,fined,or executed,”you would say to me:”That is wrong.”And it is.It goes against the Golden Rule,stated by Jesus and St.Paul,though not created by them.
So YOU should also expect your Muslim friends to agree to the same regarding Mohammed and the Koran.If they do not,then they are having different standards,one for Muslims and another for us non-Muslims.Please verify.
ISLAMOPHOBIA AND CHRISTIANITYPHOBIA
Another thing,I do not know what you think about Islamophobia.You certainly agree with me Islam is not a person but a set of ideas.Ideas can be criticized,debated.If a Muslim says:”Islamophobia is a crime”he is wrong.It is like throwing atheist writers(who write alot against Christianity)Christopher Hitchens,Richard Dawkings and Michel Onfray(of France) into JAIL for CHRISTIANITYPHOBIA.
You would say it is wrong becasue they are critiquing IDEAS,that Christianity is false for X reasons.
WHAT HAVE CHRISTIANS DONE
Have CHRISTIANS taken those atheist writers to COURT for CHRISTIANITYPHOBIA?No,instead they have had debates and writtenbooks.A war of words and ideas.Christian writers who have done it are ALISTAIR MCGRATH(ex-atheist of the UK,maybe you know him,he wrote “The Dawkings Delusion” in response to Dawkings’ “The God Delusion”) and DINESH D’SOUZA(Indian writer who is a US citizen and who wrote “What’s so Great about Christianity” in response to atheists.
Please respond saying if you agree or disagree and why.An exhange of ideas.
minoria
I have alerted Fr Frank to your post and if he wishes he will respond.
I’ll add my own comment in the mean-time.
you say:
‘In my experience with Muslims who are in the West I have several times asked them directly if they were 100% for the right of NON-MUSLIMS to critique Mohammed and the Koran AND not be punished.NEVER has one of them said yes,they were compeltely silent.’
Clearly you have met very few Muslims. If you look at the posts on my blog you will find that I co-founded MDI (Muslin Debate Initiative) to positively allow Christians and others to openly debate the Qur’an and the life of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Visit our website and watch the debates. I chair and moderate these debates and I always permit Christians to say whatever they like about Islam.
Islam, historically, is far more tolerant towards people of other faiths such as Christians and Jews. Untill very recently Christians for nearly 2000 years had persecuted and murdered Jews.
Have a read of my article ‘What the Christian Church did when it had political power over people’.
Christians like yourself need to develop an historical awareness of past crimes against people of faith and show a little humility before criticising other faiths…
Hello Paul:
Thanks for fowarding the info to Father Gelli.Your initiative is good in having proper debates by the rules.But as you know the Muslim organizations often say that Islam says that when they are a minority in a non-Muslim land they have to obey the laws of that country as long as it does not go against Islam.
But I also asked the Muslims,and it was on the internet,and they were RELIGIOUS Muslims,ones who had studied their religion,true believers,and the question was cetainly read by not just one but by dozens,if they agree to freedom to criticize Islam ANYWHERE(including Muslim countries)with no sanctions.Again,not once did any write
a line saying he/she agreed with me.
IF ENGLAND WERE 80% MUSLIM?
Suppose that became the situation.Would the majority of Muslims CONTINUE to accept the right of us non-Muslims to criticize Mohammed and the Koran and not be sanctioned?
Or would they say:”BEFORE non-Muslims were the majority and so had laws where criticizing Mohammed and the Koran was ok.We had to accept it because we were a minority.But NOW this is a Muslim country.Allah would NOT want such a thing to be allowed.”
ABOUT THE MUSLIM DEBATE INITIATIVE
Does the organization openly approve of the right to criticize Islam and not be sanctioned EVEN IN Muslim countries like Pakistan,Egypt,etc?I will have to check out the website.
You say I criticize Islam and should show humility.In fact I said nothing at all about Islam IN ITSELF in my post.
WHAT I DID CRITICIZE: 2 THINGS:
It was that most Muslims reject the right of non-Muslims to criticize Islam ANYWHERE and agree with sanctions.The question is:”Is that BEHAVIOUR part of Islam,the message of Allah?”You would say no,so then you by logic you agree with my position,one can criticize Islam freely.
Also I criticized the ILLOGICALITY of considering the criticism of a set of ideas(Islam) to be reason for SANCTIONS.Islamophobia is simply criticism of Islam,ideas.
So is PUNISHMENT for criticism of religious ideas part of the message of Allah?Because ideas are only OPINIONS,they are not persons.You would say:”That is not Islam”.So then by logic you agree with my position.
I think your view of Islam is formed by hostile Christian prejudice. It would be great if you took time to study Islam objectively, but sadly in my experience fundamentalist Christians never do.
We have dialogued on this site before and the same misunderstandings and raw prejudice keep coming up.
I can only suggest you click on some of the Muslim links on my blog, learn about real Islam (not the Christian fantasy), and above all try and have an open mind.
Hello Paul:
I made 2 simple statements,do YOU yourself hold to the position that in your view Islam is 100% for the right to criticize Mohammed and the Koran ANYWHERE and not be sactioned.
And that if you agree that since Islam is only a set of ideas(which others consider to be not true)then if for you your religion,based on that logic,there is nothing wrong with debating why one rejects such beliefs(which Muslims call Islamophobia).
OTHERS
My friend,any Jew,Hindu,Buddhist,atheist,Bahaist,etc would immediately agree I can criticize their particular beliefs anywhere and not be sanctioned.And that Hiduismophobia,Judaismophobia is no crime at all.They would say YES.
It seems you do not agree.Then we agree we disagree.But since the Golden Rule,which is the basis for human rights says “to do to others as you would have others do to you” then I am not in favor of sanctions against your views.You can express them freely.
And any Muslim can freely critique Christianity,Paul,the Trinity,etc and why they think it is false,and the Jesus of the gospels,no problem.No sanctions.Only debates and words,no court trial for Christianityphobia.
NO AGREEMENT ON MY POSITION FROM MUSLIMS
Now changing the subject a bit,I am sure dozens or hundreds of Muslims have read my comments here of the last few days.And I believe MOST are RELIGIOUS ones,that is why they read you.Yet not even one has written to say:”I agree non-Muslims can critique Islam with no sanctions ANYWHERE (not just in non-Muslim lands where Muslims have to accept such criticism) and Islamophobia as a crime is nonsense.”
It shows they disagree.Now you see why I say few Muslims are 100% for human rights for non-Muslims.Does that seem ENCOURAGING for us lovers of human rights?No.If a Christian were to write:”Sanction and jail Muslims for Christianityophobia because they criticize our religion!” then alot of Christians would write against him.
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